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Author Topic: Prayer for Protection prior to an Investigation.  (Read 25303 times)
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Doug Kelley
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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2010, 12:16:43 PM »

Brian,
You have a good, common sense approach. I really like your method of putting one's worries aside by writing them down and disposing of them. This is used in hypnosis and coaching as well.

Doug
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Doug Kelley, PhD, CH, CSL
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John Rossi
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2010, 02:15:35 PM »

I think its important to note the value ritual can play in a persons life. If an individuals belief system is such that prayer or other types of ritual are integral component then we must be respectful of it. People use rituals to become more focused or centered. They use it to seek resolution or peace.  As therapist I have taught people methods on how to meditate. I have hypnotized clients as well as taught clients methods to do self hypnosis. If I had been sitting on a mountaintop wearing a long flowing robe you could easily say that I engaged in or taught them rituals. I personally have not been involved in a smudging to cleanse a location. I have however taken clients room by room and have them tell the spirits that "It is my house. You must not bother me. You must leave. ect..". If taking these actions empowers a client and that allows a person to regain a sense of control over the situation or leaves them in a better place then we have helped them. My team is made up of Christians, Pagans, Atheists and everything in between yet we are able to effectively engage our clients because we don't let our beliefs get between us and our client.
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Brian Parsons
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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2010, 07:05:06 PM »

Great points, John. Respecting the client and the investigator's beliefs and rituals is being a good leader. We conducted a prayer for a client that we did a walk through with recently, we did so after listening to her concerns about what might happen after we left and us asking if she would allow us to pray with her (and already knowing that she was very religious). To be successful as an investigator you should be able to identify symbols of faith and belief and understand and respect the basics behind the rituals that accompany those belief systems.

The point about empowerment is essential as well, I would really like to evaluate a person's self esteem (or them esteem, right Doug?) prior and after an investigation to see if they have become more confident about who they are and their situation. At times I feel more a paranormal counselor than an investigator.
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Doug Kelley
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2010, 11:56:04 PM »

Hey Brian,
Quote
The point about empowerment is essential as well, I would really like to evaluate a person's self esteem (or them esteem, right Doug?) prior and after an investigation to see if they have become more confident about who they are and their situation. At times I feel more a paranormal counselor than an investigator.

Amen, brother! Most of the time, our job is to manage belief systems positively.

Doug
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Doug Kelley, PhD, CH, CSL
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2010, 12:10:25 PM »

You have tought me well, Master Dogu!  notworthy
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Grant Rubendunst
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2010, 01:42:47 PM »

Playing Devils advocate here again.........if we smudge and pray with client's who have a firmly entrenched belief system, do we not reinforce that belief system? Would it not be better to give them information about what they can do to cleanse their home/business and let them choose their own option and perform it themselves rather than the investigators performing something akin to mumbo-jumbo.

When we have encountered such individuals or families on investigations and nothing paranormally significant is evident and they are advised of our findings...........they stubbornly cling to their belief system.

I think the best practice is to avoid anything that supports their apprehension and anxiety. As investigators we have to know "when to hold them and when to fold them" on issues such as this especially if we suspect the presence of an intractable belief system.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 01:44:56 PM by Grant Rubendunst » Logged

John Rossi
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2010, 02:51:46 PM »

A person who has a belief system which which uses smudging, rituals or prayer, may be somewhat offended by seeing it referred to as mumbo-jumbo. Now I don't think Grant was trying to offend anyone. I think it was a abbreviated statement of a complex issue. However we obviously have people who are new to the field reading these forums and I wouldn't want someone to walk away with the idea we were advocating not serving a client because they had a different belief system. In graduate school one of the key ideas taught to us as therapists is "Be where the client is". When a client comes to me I don't expect them to have the same belief system as I do. I would not pull the plug on an investigation unless their belief system and their actions associated with it compromises the effective gathering of information. We all have been on the receiving end of attacks and criticism from close minded religious or main stream scientific people for the work we do. Why do they attack us? Its because we don't believe the things they do. There are not very many things that I know for a fact regarding the Paranormal but I am absolutely certain of the fact that I don't want to be like those people.
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Grant Rubendunst
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« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2010, 03:40:11 PM »

Let me clarify here. I'm a therapist as well John. I also attended graduate school. I have not nor shall I ever advocate that we leave a client high and dry. Be where your client is, is okay for establishing a rapport and being a genuine person. If we stay with where the client is we are stuck just like them, regardless of their belief system. As a therapist we need to give our client's the tools that will empower them and allow them to grow and that goes for the clients we investigate.

You are correct it is a complex issue. I will not retract my mumbo-jumbo statement. Sea salt, amulets, prayers, or talismans only add to the problem especially if we as investigators perform them. What does it say about us as investigators? it says we have failed and we ourselves are turning away from science and embracing superstition. Whats the meta message to the client?

Now with that being said, we can still respect their individual belief system and perhaps empower them by giving them the tools to perform a cleansing if they think it will help resolve the haunting.
As a fellow therapist have you not considered the possibility that the client's haunting experience may be a external manifestation of their internal conflicts, fears, and neuroses? 

It is my sincere opinion that 98 % of the cases we have investigated are rooted in underlying psychopathology. All I'm saying is.............if they want to use these superstitious remedies that's fine. Give them a handout about the folklore surrounding how to cleanse and let them do it.

You know I love you John and respect your opinion. I'm not attacking you or others who might share your concerns or see me as the proverbial stick in the mud. Nothing like a good debate with good friends like you and all of our members. Bottom line is....this post is just my opinion. Nothing more!
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Sharon K. West
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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2010, 06:06:08 PM »

In the way of just discussing ideas and not anything personal toward anyone, how I view these things is that the same mindset that put scientists in prison and even in fear of their lives for theorizing about concepts that were opposed to the church's view of the day, can also be found on the other end of the spectrum where a scientist's mindset is that there is nothing true other than what I know and everything other than that is wrong.

The rituals of anointing, prayer, and whatever else are actually based upon the same kind of principals that psychology puts forth when you get right down to the root of it. Shamans deal with things in an ancient way which impact people psychologically. It's almost like these things are saying the same things only in a different "language."

If a person is able to "own" their space simply through their inward thoughts and attitude, is that not the same as "owning" their space through the outward use of a symbol of ownership, such as a prayer? The person utilizing simply what is within themselves also makes use of rituals in their thought life to reinforce these positive ideas and make them a reality. But which one is wrong? If we say either one is wrong, it makes the other one wrong as well.

I just think that we don't fully know yet, and we can't throw the baby out with the bath water in the process of learning.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 06:26:53 PM by Sharon K. West » Logged
Julie Welcher
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« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2018, 05:58:48 AM »

It's very important to pray before and after an investigation. You never know what you're going to encounter. It's vital to protect yourself and your team. There are things that are in this world that we don't understand yet. As investigators we understand the risks and dangers we could face. So with that protect yourselves in connection with your higher power.
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« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2018, 08:54:16 PM »

Thank you, Julie, for you input on this question. Although this thread stretches back eight years it's still a topic of discussion among teams as well as the individuals within them. For some, like yourself, this is a necessary aspect of investigating ghostly situations. For others, the act serves as an extension of their belief systems and creates a bit of circular logic. In others words, if one prays for protection then they see it as the fear of being followed, hurt, possessed, or what have you is truly real. If they don't pray or don't believe in protection then there is nothing to fear since this will not affect them.

It honestly doesn't matter what you do prior to an investigation, the important thing is to not be fearful or allow your beliefs/fears/expectations to dictate your actions, reactions, or emotions during an investigation. If you truly believe you can be followed home or injured it can truly make things difficult in your life outside of investigations. The best bet is to know you are truly in control no matter what is said or not said before heading out.
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