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Author Topic: Does anyone believe in demons?  (Read 14051 times)
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James Gilberd
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« on: November 17, 2011, 01:39:46 AM »

As an athiest, I tend to think that belief in demons is the province of the religiously deluded, and that anyone who calls him or herself a demonologist is actually a complete nutter. However, as an 'open-minded skeptic' I'm ready to change my opinion if presented by convincing evidence. I'm curious as to what the range of opinions among the Paranexus community.

Personally, I have found the book "Will Storr vs the Supernatural" expresses my opinion of demonologists pretty neatly. Has anyone read this British book? it really is a great read.
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Strange Occurrences Paranormal Investigators
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Doug Kelley
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 08:11:09 AM »

Hi James,
I'm with you; demons, like Satan, are a religious construct. I have never seen any evidence of their existence outside religious mythology. I have no problem with a "demonologist" who approaches the topic from a historical or an archaeological prospective, however, I haven't seen one of these so far either. Most demonologists in the ghost hunting community believe in them too. I have argued against the existence of demons for years.

I read Wil Storr's book a few years ago.

Doug
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Doug Kelley, PhD, CH, CSL
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Jeremy Gray
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 08:30:21 AM »

Greetings!

I have read that book, I picked up a copy when I was in Dublin a few years ago.  It is a great read!  

As for your question, I have my  personal beliefs, and my paranormal investigator analysis mindset at odds with each other.  While my personal beliefs and religious background (E.L.C.A. Lutheran) provide many stories and scripture references.  The belief in angels and demons, heaven and hell, forgiveness and damnation, come as natural to Christianity as walking and talking to most people, though I know some who have trouble with that level of multitasking as well Roll Eyes .

All the while my training and experiences tell me that there just isn't any irrefutable proof of demons, or angels for that matter.  There are plenty of people who will confess to seeing their angels at the brink of death, or people who become possessed by demons, but no hard evidence.  There isn't a residual goo or skin markings, or other evidence like that to determine if someone has encountered a preternatural being.

Now let me ask you this, what would it take to convince a skeptic of the presence of a spirit/ghost or that aliens exist? What would it take to convince a scientific mind of the existence of magic?  How could you document and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that something like that exists?  What would YOU consider to be "convincing evidence"?  (That "YOU" directed at the general public/ readers. Smiley )  

I think this is more of a question about the human condition than spiritual beings.  I believe, but have not seen.  Isn't that the essence of faith? We all here believe in something that hasn't been seen, that hasn't been measured, or recorded, or proved one way or another.  Yet here we are, talking, sharing, and expressing ideas about spirits and aliens.  We're all looking for answers to the simple questions: Who/what are they, Why are they here, What do they want with us, and How are they able to interact with us?

There have been stories from just about every religion describing this type of horrible spirit that can destroy your soul, or turn you evil or make you sick.  The stories exist from the ancient texts through today.  So back to my return question, what do we consider to be evidence of their existence?
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Eric Extreme
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 12:21:00 PM »

The funny thing is half of the cases I get are claims of "a demon" in the house. Right off the bat some client education is required.
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James Gilberd
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 04:23:36 PM »

Hi guys - thank you for those great responses. What triggered my post was a recent discussion with a fellow PI in NZ who definitely believes in demons. What I find disturbing is that sometimes, extreme violent behaviour which is most likely attributable to mental illness is being attributed to demonic presences and possession, and I feel strongly that as paranormal investigators, we should keep well clear of those situations - we cannot help, and can only really further the potential for harm by our involvement if we perpetuate the myth that demons are responsible.
Also, (and I think the demonologist portrayed in the Will Storr book is a great example) demonologists have a poor record of faking, manipulating or falsely attributing videos and sound files to substantiate their claims of demonic interference in human lives. They are often very dangerous people, whether they know this or not.

I heard an interview on NZ radio with a vampire & werewolf expert (it coincided with a the previous Twilight film release) and expected him to be a nutter, but he was in fact incredibly intelligent and articulate, and talked in depth about the mytholgical and sociological origins of said creatures, without claiming that they exist in reality (he didn't believe that they do). He is also university professor. One would hope that there are demonologists of similar background and approach.
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Strange Occurrences Paranormal Investigators
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 04:59:21 PM »

Nope I don't and its gotten me in trouble for being obtuse about it. I've come to the conclusion that demons can only be conjured in the mind. An individuals culture, mythology, and religious constructs influences their belief systems. Doug and I have discussed this topic many times and often  pondered the role that psychokinesis may play if projected unconsciously by the observer/Believer.

Its just conjecture but what if this energy is the product of internal mental processes such as conflict, turmoil, or trauma ?

My problem with demons and demonologist is the harm they can do by frightening folks. I don't care how many demons they can name and classify, they only hold dominion in a mind that accepts their existence.
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April Roberts
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 05:01:30 PM »

I believe there are malevolent human spirits that claim to be "demons", I have actually come across that kind of situation and in the end, it had no power at all. But, no, I think like the others stated before me, it is religious construct. I have seen no evidence of demons. It is all belief, If you believe in demons, there will, in fact, be demons.
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April Roberts C.P.I
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 02:15:56 AM »

Here is an article that I have found, even tho I'm with Grant in being obtuse about the subject, and by the end of this they say "that it should be left up to priest and theologians", and I highly dissagree with that and how they view the non-existence.  But part in what they say is true, and I would not associate myself with such "ghost hunters" either. For most of them are out there to be their favorite TV investigator.

http://www.hauntmastersclub.com/editorials/demonology.html

Now as far as Inhuman spirits, this could be  a wide array of research. But I often find that Inhuman spirits are really connected to cultural beliefs, and out of orgianl manuscripts, and by word of mouth, which I find better to comprehend, most of these were benevolent. Now, as far as the psychology of a bully that has become discarnate, I can really go with that, for sure. They can say whatever they want to and play into your own psychological fear. That's why we educate the client, and counsel them to help them help themselves, in order to move pass this fear and seemingly cultural society supestistion. Discarnate spirits were once people too, and if they were in this life controlling people with fear, and knowing the superstions of an area, why not still be a bully in the after life as well?  I also think that some of these inhuman spirit are a conjured thing of our consciouness, a thought form so to speak, that is projected from the person's sub-consciousness. Now if I have an irrate client that wishes to preach at me after the investigation is done, and all of the evidence is in, I'll politely leave.   
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Shishir Kumar
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 03:35:42 AM »


Hi,
Interestingly, in India the only thing that supports the theory of evil  are the ghosts. It is believed that the demons cannot land on earth. They have been dragged to another dimension of Earth by the God. So nobody fears demons here. Saitan do show up in some movies here but they are fallout of Hollywood’s legacy here. Even the claimed practitioners of black magic worship god and goddess with a different methodology.  Belief here is that the only evil that loiters on earth is the human who died unnatural death. They have different forms according to the situation they die in - shockingly these forms match the descriptions of demons.
Shishir
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Shishir Kumar
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